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CastlesMy question is about researching castles. The clan that I am using, in real life, their castle was destroyed after the 1745 uprising. They have a new one now, of course, but I am trying to find some sort of description or drawing of the old one. Added April 9th, 2009 by Sarah Hoss
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Sarah! This somehow slipped through the cracks! To answer your question, I do most of my research online. I have gotten great help from librarians in Scotland, but the Gazetteer of Scotland has some great information and is a wonderful place to start. Be warned: you need to dig, as the user interface isn't always the most intuitive. Be sure to use the tabs along the side, and you can find historical maps, and more. I also do a lot of mindless, aimless searching for random photos that stir something in my mind. Google Image search is great for randomness like that--just do an image search on "scottish castle" and see if you don't lose 15 minutes clicking away and sighing. :)
For your specific castle, I'd say, before you contact a librarian, maybe first get in touch with the clan society. In my experience, they are thrilled to help, and might even have more information at their fingertips than a librarian would.
As for which castle to use, in the past, I've begun with my historical figure and go from there. For example, for Ewen Cameron, I used his real Tor Castle. I'm currently working on a synopsis, and though I can't say too much about it yet (!), I will tell you I'm coming at it from another angle this time. That is, I have a fictional character in my mind, and have found a real castle that, though isn't explicitly associated with my hero or my plot, it's not out of the realm of possiblity. If there's no good "real" castle for you to use, I say just make one up. Depending on your time period, a lot of the real castles are just rubble by now anyway. For example, the Campbell tower house I write about in Warrior, is completely gone.
One last bit of advice, try your local library. I've gotten so many ideas just browsing through books--and kids' books aren't to be overlooked either! Those DK Eyewitness books are among my faves. :)
Good luck! I'll let you know if I think of more...
— veronica Fri, 04/10/2009 - 1:16pm
I have been in touch with the Clan. The Coverner of the Clan Museum has become a good friend and helps me out alot. But, sadly, I am still unable to locate a drawing or description of the old castle.
I have used the DK Eyewitness books, they were suggested by you a while back and I really enjoyed them. I will keep searching and if nothing comes up, then I will create it. I would just love to have the real thing first!!!
Thank you for all of your help! I will try the information you have given me!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Mon, 04/13/2009 - 5:35am
oops, sorry to repeat myself! X:-) I'll ask Monica if she has any castle-research secrets, and will report back...
— veronica Tue, 04/14/2009 - 4:50pm
Okay, I asked Monica McCarty who, IMO does impeccable research. Seriously. I research, but it's more in a curious, fanciful, dipping in-and-out kind of way. But Monica used to be a lawyer, and she has that type of mind that processes large amounts of information and (I'm so jealous) just remembers it. She'll get interested in something then will pore through books until she has an encyclopedic knowledge of it. Don't even get her started on the Magna Carta. LOL.
Anyhoo, this is exactly what she replied to me by email:
"sometimes there just isn't info out there and you have to go with what is plausible for the period, i.e. a basic tower house which is probably most likely for anything after the 14-15th C. That's what I did for the old Inveraray Castle. I use undiscovered Scotland quite a bit for their great pictures and I rely heavily on the Osprey publishing series on different kinds of Scottish castle. They are invaluable. I've got a bunch of them, but # 46 is really good for tower houses. I also have the "bible" on Scottish castles called "Castles of the Clans." It isn't heavy on description, however."
Anyway, good luck, Sarah. I have a mantra, whenever I get stuck too much on a certain historical point--too "in the weeds" as I call it. I got really tripped up in my second book, dealing with this very famous man and the orchestration of all these very famous battles, and one day my husband just said to me, "they won't be teaching this to kids." It was a revelation. So, if you can't find the exact layout of the castle, try instead to enjoy fabricating your vision of it.
— veronica Tue, 04/14/2009 - 9:15pm
Thank you very much for going through all of that work for my question. I had started making it up in my mind and on paper, but I wanted to make sure I gave it a good go. I have a few leads I am waiting answers on and we will see how that goes.
I will check into seeing how to get a hold of the Osprey publishing series, they sound very interesting. Again, thank you very much!!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Wed, 04/15/2009 - 4:16am
Anytime!! :)
— veronica Wed, 04/15/2009 - 9:07am
I was going to suggest Undiscovered Scotland too! great site to poke around!
— pammerjo Sat, 04/18/2009 - 11:21am
Well, I email two of the main Museums in Scotland and I got some information. Very little but at least I know something now. I will have to create the castle. Mine was burnt down in 1746 and the new one built in 1800. There is a garden area and a well that is all that remains of my castle. I guess we will see how creative I can be!!!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Sat, 04/18/2009 - 2:02pm
Can I ask which castle? I have a lot of great old books.......
— pammerjo Sat, 04/18/2009 - 5:31pm
Castle Cluny in the Laggan Parrish. It belonged to the Clan Macpherson. The towns would be Bradenbock, Kingussie,and Newtonmore. Thanks!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Sun, 04/19/2009 - 4:59am
Hi Veronica!
I really enjoy reading the posts on your web site! I also think it is so nice that you take the time to answer everyone!
My question is: with all of the Scottish lands and castles that you have been to, have you ever "felt" that any of those places that you visited were haunted? I have heard so much about hauntings and ghosts in Scotland, but I don't know anyone who has been fortunate enough to visit there!
— stefinne Wed, 04/22/2009 - 4:55am
Ohh, good question!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Wed, 04/22/2009 - 6:27am
Hi Stefinne! It's my pleasure to answer! Seriously, writing is so solitary, it's nice to feel some community out there. :) Now to answer your question, yes and no. I didn't feel things were haunted in any sort of literal sense (like no prickling hairs on the back of my neck, or sense that there was anyone there.) But I will say, there were many times when I felt the power and history of a place. For example, in the old Edinburgh that lies underneath the modern Edinburgh, it's hard not to feel echoes of the old souls and clamoring and hard lives lived in those alleys. And then again touring castles that had been taken by my MacColla...now that was a powerful feeling of connection! But sadly, not in any sort of spectral, supernatural way. (OMG, what I wouldn't give for some sort of ghostly experience--especially with one of my heroes!) There are, apparently, a number of castles out there that claim to be haunted, and I intend to check at least one of them out someday! I'd absolutely believe it...
— veronica Wed, 04/22/2009 - 1:50pm
Depending on the countryside and time of the building of the clan home, is the manner the castle would have looked like. Some of the early castles were build of wood!! In the number of battles that took place, their wooden castle may have been destroyed by fire. The medieval castles were built of stone as per the king's direction. Only in the highlands (the mostly mountainous part above Glasgow and Edinburgh where the king was not always obeyed) The clans build according to money available. Go to the local bookstore or on line and look for pictures of various castles. The lowland castles - were more defensive outposts. Probably a rectangular stone building with no windows before the first 15 feet or so. There was one wide door on ground level. The inhabitants took their animals inside the wide door and then barred it from the inside. They themselves, using a ladder climbed up through a hole into the living areas. Later on those castles were expanded to have round towers added to the corners. Later generations expanded and modernized their homes. Many of them were destroyed over the years. Remember, during the history of Scotland, before 1707 when Scotland and England became one, The KING owned all the land and told the Scots what he wanted and if they would serve him, give them land to live on for providing the king with fighters when he demanded it and tax payments for the king's rule. Just put in the the word "Scotland" and the web will flower like a field of daisies. In some cases, given a name there will be pictures of where that name lived.
— Sinclair Thu, 06/25/2009 - 1:02pm
Thanks for the great post, Sinclair! I spend most of my time researching Highland life, so your thoughts on Lowland vs. Highland castles are illuminating.
— veronica Fri, 06/26/2009 - 3:39pm
Thank you for posting, I found it very interesting!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Fri, 06/26/2009 - 5:53pm
Guys picked up a great book Kith and Kin Scottish Clans has a Map of the Old Scotland with all the clans and where they reside. The castle part is not as detailed as I would like. However they do have all the Septs.
I just found out that I am an outlaw! LOL!!! Walker (which was an occupation not a clan )is a sept of MacNuncator which is a sept of MacGreggor!
Run for the hills! LOL!!
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Tue, 08/11/2009 - 2:14pm
Too funny!!!! Is that the name of the book? Who are the authors?
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Tue, 08/11/2009 - 5:09pm
My apologies Sarah It's Collins Kith and Kin. oh and all the stuff you went through with Castles I am going through now only my dilemmna was to have it placed in the right area (which Collins helped with a map even though he does not name all the castles). I found a ton of books on castles through Barnes and Noble and Borders and at Amazon. Some are out of print but I have two that work perfect for the time period you and I are writing about.
Do you still need information or are you good now? I also found a book on ghost in castles, castle lore. A lot of the stuff I wanted is out of print (oh pooh). I can tell you that I pour over this stuff for hours and days at a time. I research a lot (when you work for a law firm you tend to do that LOL).
Let me know!
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 08/12/2009 - 7:05am
Let me check and see about this book. I think I have everything I need about the Macpherson castle. When I start book 2, I will need to know info about another castle. But, you can never know too much! I am very interested in this map though. I will keep you posted, thank you!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Wed, 08/12/2009 - 9:41am
I was trying to see if there was a way to post the map so you can see it without buying the book. But the book was only $7 bucks. It was worth it I feel because it shows all the septs and gives you a brief synopsis on the clan.
:-)
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 08/12/2009 - 1:05pm
Sarah I looked at my map but alas no Castles for Macphersons as I suspected. The map is not intended to show you the actual castles themselves just where they were located. Also Do you need a listing of your Septs? There are 48 that fall under Clan Macphersons. Also did you go here: http://www.clan-macpherson.org/
Collins listed some other sources in his book:
The Council of Scottish Clans Assoc. (I sent you and V the link from facebook) and you can follow them on twitter too.
http://www.cosca.net/
The Scottish International Gathering Trust (could not find a web address for this) 25 Dublin Street, Edinburgh EH1 3PB (031-557-4059)
The Scottish Tartan Society
http://www.scottish-tartans-world-register.com/scottish_tartans_Society....
The Scots Ancestry Research Society
http://www.scotsancestry.co.uk/
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 08/12/2009 - 8:05pm
Sarah I also found this on your Castle Cluny what type of design it was and the construction of the original castle
Architecture
The original castle was a Z-plan, with a central block with diagonally placed round towers. The accommodation was provided on four floors in the central block and NW tower, and on five floors in the SE tower. Above this was a garret floor and a smaller square tower rising above the main stair, at the junction of the NW tower with the main block.
Date
1604
http://www.castlestories.net/Scotland/Aberdeenshire/Cluny-Castle.html
Explanation of a Z Castle (other type castles linked here)
EXAMPLES OF Z PLAN CASTLES (PICTURES)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenbuchat_Castle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Fraser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatton_Castle
Hope this narrows the search and gives you a clearer picture so you can be descriptive as possible. :-)
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 08/12/2009 - 8:12pm
One last thing ( I love Wikipedia) One stop shopping.
Pictures of Z, L or C castles, Baronial Homes, and keeps.
All by location. Some are private so there is no pic. Some of course are completely ruined so no pic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_of_Scotland
Enjoy!
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 08/12/2009 - 8:17pm
Excuse me for a second, but I thoguht Wikipedia wasn't reliable because not everything was checked for authenticity?
I will check our what you have given me, thank you so much!!! I have been in touch with the Museums in Scotland, all of them, I am in touch with the Clan Macpherson Museum and it's Coverter, Bruce. He has been such a GREAT help.
AS for my castle I know it was detroyed after the '45 uprising. In 1788 there was a new one. Finding info on the one I wanted was hard. Yours might work, it is different then hte info I got. I didn't have much. Thanks again for all of your work! Please let me know if I can help you in some way!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Thu, 08/13/2009 - 3:43am
OK, I went back and studied your sites. It's not in my area. My clan is from the Kingussie, Newtonmore area. Aberdeenshire is too high up. BUT, the castle is cool, I might still use pieces of it. I wonder why there are so many castles called Cluny?
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Thu, 08/13/2009 - 3:46am
I was trying to find the post where you had the area and I looked at my Map as to where the MacPherson were located though they do not say the names of the smaller castles on the map they just show a small icon where one was located. Which is a disappointment
What about the design of the castle? If you can find out what the original (design not a picture) was you can look at the other examples I sent you from Wikipedia. There were only three styles L, Z and C (which I understand is a variation of Z).
Stay away from the Baronial homes unless you are focusing on homes after 1745.
And you are correct Wikipedia can be suspicious, however at the bottom of the page I check the sources from where the information is derived. That is usually the biggest indication of accurate information.
Sarah you help me all the time with your positive reinforment! :-)
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Thu, 08/13/2009 - 6:14am
Wow!!!! Thanks for all the great info!! Sarah, I use Wikipedia a lot for stuff that's more for flavor than for exact historical fact. But I'd say at least once a day I'm peeking at Wikipedia for one thing or another...
— veronica Mon, 08/17/2009 - 11:19pm
OK, thanks! I have never used it!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Tue, 08/18/2009 - 2:54am
Yes me too. It's just a quickie reference and I make sure I check my source too. If I need real information however it's going to be in a book or library or online public library.
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Tue, 08/18/2009 - 7:42am
Ladies just in case you wish to have a Comprehensive Five Volume Books (descriptive) of Castles and Domestic architecture of Scotland. I hope this will come handy for research.
The books were written by two Architects (David MacGibbon and Thomas Ross) The title of the book is called:
THE CASTELLATED AND DOMESTIC ARCHITECTURE OF SCOTLAND FROM THE TWELTH TO THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY.
http://www.archive.org/details/castellateddomes05macguoft
This is an open Library site where you can download (652 pages) of text of every castle and domestic structure in Scotland from the 12 to the 18th century.
Electric Scotland also offers the book broken in Volumes.
http://www.electricscotland.com/books/pdf/castellated_architecture.htm
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Mon, 09/21/2009 - 5:40am
COOOOOOOL!!!!! Thanks for sharing, Lizzie!! =)
— veronica Mon, 09/21/2009 - 5:26pm
No Problem I just realized the ELECTRIC SCOTLAND link is the best link of all because it breaks the five volumes instead of downloading the entire book.
ONE CAUTION, if there is a particular thing you are looking for (castle, keep, baronial home, church) I would down load the entire book look at the index and find the volume and the page. Get a list together so you can do this. The book is really descriptive!
I found Ballone Castle in Volume 2 page 248 to 252. I have the actual design spects (picutres) in floors of the castle. I intend on using this information for describing my fictious castle.
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Tue, 09/22/2009 - 10:59am
Thanks, Lizzie! :)
— veronica Wed, 09/23/2009 - 9:34am
You are welcome my friends!
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Fri, 09/25/2009 - 11:28am
Hi ladies, I googled 'scottish castles, images' and I clicked on the site below, which gave me a list from A-Z of castle pictures. Perhaps that should be pictures of specific castles. Anyway it may be of help, it may not. I hope it will. :)
www.rampantscotland.com/castles/blcastles_index.htm
Gayle
— Gayle Lee Sun, 12/06/2009 - 12:18am
I'm baaaack!! LOL ... Seriously though here is another website that might be useful!! :)
http://www.freewebs.com/gillonj/
Gayle
— Gayle Lee Sun, 12/06/2009 - 12:30am
Thanks for sharing Gayle!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Sun, 12/06/2009 - 7:22am
Anytime!! :)
Gayle
— Gayle Lee Sun, 12/06/2009 - 8:43pm
Thanks, Gayle!! Can't wait to check it out!
— veronica Tue, 12/08/2009 - 8:05am
I also picked up a DVD of castles (mostly Barional) from Barnes and Noble. I was trying to find more castle books (especially the one I promised to Sarah that has all the clans and keeps listed) and fell on quite a few DVD's. It's from a series that the BBC was doing on castles. Fyvie is on their, castle Fraser, Edinburgh. Lots of cool castles. Though they take you on a good tour of the castles I wanted more information and history. There were two DVD's in the set and the price was good. I think there are about 12 castles on the DVD.
I seem to absorb information better that way then reading. Or at least that is the lie I am telling myself. LOL
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 6:34am
LOL, good idea Lizzie. My story is set in Newtonmore Scotland and that is where the series "Monarch of the Glen" is filmed, so I have watched it and gotten ideas for the scenery etc.
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Tue, 01/05/2010 - 2:02pm
Ooo Sarah I was watching Death and Sex on one of those history channel thingy on sunday. Oh man I got a great idea for Coyote Woman. I knew I wanted my character to be abducted and I was thinking Pawnee since they are close to that area I am writing about. Hee-hee it's almost perfect though I will have to stretch it a bit. Since my character is neither a young girl or a virgin. But hey for story purposes it will work. I am still working on the historical research so this will be my backburner work.
Back to my Scottish Lads!!!
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Tue, 01/05/2010 - 3:00pm
Have you spoken to Sharayah lately and asked questions?
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Wed, 01/06/2010 - 4:13am
Och! your niece? No, no I have not. I got side tracked on Coyote Woman. There is so much to research on this book I don't know where to begin which is why it is backburner. Plus I as suppose to send Shar my character synopsis on the main male protagonist but I never got myself started. The problem is I am of two minds of where I want to go with this character and how his beginnings came about. Very important as it explains his position in the tribe. I don't want to just make a decision because it will affect the story.
Please tell Shar I have not forgotten her I just didn't want to give her crap. Plus I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable speaking to the tribal elders or asking someone to speak for her to the tribal elders.
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Wed, 01/06/2010 - 12:54pm
Honey, first I don't think you will make her uncomfortable. Sharayah has always been very open about her heritage. IT is a shame that her grandfather wasn't alive, Ken would have been an excellent source. I do know that he did a very good job of passing the heritage on to his son, Keen, and I can speak to him. I will let her know that it is on hold for now. Don't worry. She will help when you are ready.
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Thu, 01/07/2010 - 4:14am
Oh thank you my Saharah! I am so glad. I know I kind of fell off the wagon with this. I really do need to sit down and have a list of questions to ask because if the mood hits to work on the story I don't want to get stuck.
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Thu, 01/07/2010 - 9:25am
Exactly and you need to give her time to find the right answers if she doesn't know them off the top of her head. She also speaks lakota fluently, so she could help with dialog.
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Fri, 01/08/2010 - 5:37am
Ooooo ooooh you did not tell me she speak Lakota fluently!! Do you know which Tribe of Lakota?
I know there is Dakota and Nakota (these are seperate and have variations on the language).
~Lizzie
— bttrfly29 Mon, 01/25/2010 - 11:49am
Nakota, Dakota, and Lakota relatively speak the same language, a few variations. One way to tell which tribe someone is from when they are speaking from is to listen to the words. Lakota words will be spoken with an L. Dakota with a D and Nakota with an N. Could be the same word for all three tribes, but with a different Letter in it! I am not sure which tribe she is from, just ask her. She won't mind! Her grandfather was full blooded Lakota and taught all traditions to his kids, and they to theirs, so Sharayah knows alot. What she doesn't, she will find out for you!
~Sarah~
— Sarah Hoss Tue, 01/26/2010 - 4:26am